Architecture & Design :: New York :: Interview with Beth Donner

A few months ago I came up with an idea in an effort to fill a void out here on Long Island. I wanted to create a podcast interviewing architects and designers throughout the Island. My thought process in this was that this would be a great opportunity for architects and designers to learn about different colleagues in the same region.

With the way architects and designers and specializing in specific parts of the industry nowadays, I figured this would be a good opportunity for architects and designers to network with others. A few weeks ago I had the honors of interviewing designer Beth Donner for the first episode. Beth is an interior design, based out of Melville. She specialized in hospitality and her resume includes restaurants, hotels, catering halls and even fire stations.

In the interview, we get into how Beth got started in the industry and how she accidentally fell into hospitality. We discuss her firm and their philosophy and what her plans and goals are for the future.

This was a fund first interview and we had a blast chatting. I hope you enjoy and please leave a comment, let me know your thoughts!!

If you don’t want to watch the entire episode and prefer to read a transcribed version, please read below:

Beth:

I don't look at it as work. I look at it as it's one of my passions. It's my baby.

Brian:

Hello, and welcome to architecture and design New York. This is Brian Berkowitz. I'm an architectural photographer out here in New York, and I'm with Beth Donner today from Beth Donner Design. Thank you for coming on with me.

Beth:

It's a pleasure coming on with you.

Brian:

So thanks for coming on for my first episode. As I mentioned to you, when I had this idea, I didn't really know exactly what I wanted to do with it. But we sort of started communicating on a mutual project that we were working on and the idea was kind of formulating in my brain at the same time. And I said, Hey, why don't you, this is my idea. What do you think of it? Do you want to come on and do this episode? So I want to personally thank you for coming on and joining me for my first episode.

Beth:

I'm thrilled to be here and I'm thrilled to help figure this whole thing out, which is, which is great. And I truly enjoyed working with you on the project that we worked on together and everything came up beautiful and you've been wonderful to work with. So I wanted to, you know, come back and, and help you out with this. And we're sort of, this is sort of the prototype.

Brian:

Exactly. So, so my idea, my concept here was essentially cause here where we are in long Island in New York, we kind of lack a podcast for our industry. And although we're, we are in different fields, maybe being a photographer, you being a designer we obviously overlap tremendously and there's a lack of podcasts and content for that matter geared towards architects, designers and everyone in that, in the built space environment. So I said, why don't I, you know, create this podcast where we can speak to different designers, different architects throughout the, you know, the New York Metro area in long Island and sort of formulate this way for people to almost network or find out about others, especially people that have specialties like you do. And we'll get into that. And just give a way for people to learn about each other and, and see, you know, who else is out there in their communities?

Beth:

Well, we're all in, I look at it as we're all in an allied field, we're all in a field that's artistic and we would all understand one another interior designers, photographers, architects. We all understand how important it is in this artistic field and presenting that image now more than ever with social media, you want to be able to network and present yourselves in the best way possible. So what it's, this is the best format for you to do it in and get to know everybody. I think so.

Brian:

Well, I guess we'll find that right. Okay. So worked in people if they want to see your work and you know, we'll get into some questions in a bit. Where can people find you? I know you're on Instagram, you have your website. We're on Instagram, we're on Facebook. Although

Beth:

Facebook, I don't know lately where we're on LinkedIn. I seem to be, get a lot more interest on my personal page than I do on the business page. But we're in the process of developing that as well. We're also in the process of developing a brand new website, a website really hasn't been touched in years. We did a website back in 2006 and seven, which at the time was leading edge. Now it's not,

Brian:

I almost feel like every two years you've got all sort of revamped

Beth:

Almost. And we're working on some really interesting things for the website and we should be launching that website. I would say sometime, probably by mid April. Okay. it's almost there, but we have a lot more work to do. And we're also going to be opening up an account with Twitter and right now those are the platforms that were, yeah, exactly.

Brian:

All right, cool. So we'll get into, I guess your background, you know, we're here today, we're recording in your office and we've been chatting for a while now, but I didn't even realize the type of operation you have here. I mean, you have ton of employees all around the place. So

Beth:

Yeah. Well, I share an office with my husband. Who's an architect, Frank Ralph. And what we do is he's an architect, he's got his architecture side, I've got my interior design side. Actually, we just discussed, we're going to be working on some projects together. But we do have two separate businesses. I have been blessed during this pandemic that our business has been affected, but not in such a way where I had to let go of any of my employees the nine employees that I've had from the beginning, they're still with me. Oh, fantastic. And we're keeping ourselves busy up until this past year and a half, we were mostly hospitality based, which is restaurants, hotels. And in the last year, we have been lucky enough to get multi-family, which is where I met you. And a lot of luxury residential is coming in all different types anywhere from doing luxury, massive baths, to doing full on homes, to working with spec builders. And that's been a growing part of my business right now.

Brian:

Nice. So I know you mentioned hospitality and that's, I mean, that's sort of how I know you and I guess how a lot of people in this area know you. So, you know, let's take a step back however many years and go over how you even got started in design. Was it, was it something out of school that you went to?

Beth:

I went to school for fashion. Okay. And I worked for a company called allied stores right out of school. And I was in their fashion merchandising program and ended up as a buyer for categories of clothing. And I used to travel over around the world to do their import programs. So back in the mid to late eighties, I was working with allied for just a few years. And then I met my husband or future husband who was an interior designer. And he was actually helping me with my own apartment. We both lived in an, a building in Western New York, New Jersey, right over the river, which was a great place to live by the way, because you get the whole city in front of you. And he was actually helping me with the apartment. And he said to me, Oh my God, if I had someone like you to help me, I could grow my interior design business.

Beth:

So we're looking at, I was only a couple of years out of school. So we're looking at like 1987, 88, 89, that whole time period. And we started working together. I left allied stores and we started a business together and we got lucky enough to have a friend of ours introduce us in late 89, early 92, Anthony Scotto here on long Island, who is an iconic restaurant tour here on long Island event venues, catering, venues, restaurants. And we met him to actually design his home in sands point. Our first major job was actually residential was residential. And he had already interviewed from what I was told, like 20 designers ended up meeting myself and Steve and was blown away and hired us right away. And we ended up designing an amazing home in sands point within a year's time, we were then designing Westbourne Manor, then the Fox hollow, then the Chateau Brianne, and it became and so on and so on and so on.

Beth:

And we were lucky enough in the early nineties to be sort of pigeonholed into hospitality because back in the late eighties was a big stock market crash. And the area of business at that time that was not affected was hospitality. That was the time period when Disney was blowing up, Vegas was blowing up. Hospitality was becoming a huge category and changing very quickly. And that was a category that people were spending a lot of money. So luckily we, that's how we found our niche and it's been that niche ever since. My Steve was my second home to actually, he passed away in, at the age of 49 in 2005 or six. And I ended up, I have to build a business of my own, right, which I actually started in 2000 because he stayed, we did work in Las Vegas as well for S four Scotto at the Venetian. We did Sephora renos. We did tint Doritos, which was the bakery. And we also did pizzeria on the casino floor. He stayed in Vegas, started working with Sheldon Adelson. I didn't want to go to Vegas. So I went, came back to New York, started with my own business. We sort of separated amicably and it was around 99, 2000. Then I started my own business and I've had the Scotto client, since, since

Brian:

You mentioned luck a few times, so I'm going to sort of steal a question from guy Ross who hosts the podcast that I listened to called, how I built this. And he always asks his podcast guests, how much of your success is owed to luck? And you know, this wasn't a question I thought to ask, but you kept mentioning the word lock. So I figured and I'm kind of curious because you know, a lot of people ask me for instance you know, cause I, you know, I'm doing a lot of work for a lot of big clients also and they say, you know, how much of it has been locked or how have you gotten it? And I said, you know, a lot of it is locked, but I think you have to set yourself up to be in a position where when those lucky opportunities come up, you're able to take advantage of it.

Beth:

Totally, totally. The situation back in the early nineties, where we happen to fall into the hospitality niche, that was the one niche, everyone corporate was dying. There was not a lot of residential work going on. It was just to me, we, yes, we were given that opportunity and we harnessed it. I mean, when those jobs opened up, when the Fox hollow was reinvented, Chateau Brianne was reinvented. We literally, I believe we reinvented the catering event menu on long Island. We reinvented it and we reinvented it forever. Ever since we reinvented those spaces, every catering space, every event menu space on long Island and beyond was affected with what Steve and I were doing at the time. And the only other designer at the time that was doing some interesting stuff in that particular category was a designer by the name of Adam to honey who did have probably at least age wise, maybe 15, 20 years on us at the time he had done Woodbury Jewish center and he'd done a beautiful job and he was doing some other work. So we were, we harnessed it and we knocked it out of the park. Yeah. So yes, it was luck that we got into that category, but it's exactly what you said. So, and we've, I've been trying to do that ever since I've been trying to stay on top of those trends, stay on top of technology, stay on top of whatever I can. So whatever opportunity comes my way I could harness. Right. And I instill that in my team. Sure.

Brian:

All right. So let's go into a little bit of your process. Let's say, you know, for sake of talking hospitality, I'm opening a restaurant and I need a design and I call you and I say, I need a design. What's your process like?

Beth:

Okay. The first thing we do is we meet with the client whether these days it's in person or whether it's on a zoom call or whatever. And we sort of get a sense for their vision. We also first ask, okay, what is the theme? What is the menu? What is the food that you're serving? What is the feeling that you want to impart? And based on that we then take their dream or their vision. And a lot of times live send me inspiration pictures, Oh, we love this. And we love this. And this is what we were thinking. We'll take that. And within the office, we'll sort of brainstorm and we'll put our own spin on it and then come back with an initial presentation. And generally 98% of the time they're thrilled with it. And we just run with it. And then based on that initial inspiration, we then go ahead and do a full design and we'll do a final presentation. Some of them will have full on photo, realistic renderings. Some of them don't need it. And and then we do that presentation. The next thing you know, we're into construction documents and then it gets built.

Brian:

So based on what you just said is are most of your jobs of collaboration with all nine of your team members or do specific team members handle specific jobs or good questions?

Beth:

Okay. Yes. I've got on my team of nine. I've got three senior designers, one I'll call her an intermediate designer who also does a lot of the production work. I've got a director of production who handles a lot of our drawings. We've got an intern that's with me now a year. So she's a little bit past an intern. At this point. We've got someone who handles all the purchasing and the administration, and we've got someone who handles all the business management and then there's myself. What we do when a project comes in, we decide of three senior designers, which senior designer would be most appropriate for that project. Sometimes it's deemed with someone in particular because they've been working with a particular client for all these years alongside me, for example, Scotto, there's one particular designer. Now that's been working with me by my side, doing all the Scotto projects. The Umberto's projects, that's another client that we've had for years. I pride myself on the fact that our clients keep coming back and coming back and we keep getting referrals. And truthfully for the last 20, it's pretty much almost 25 years. That's been how we've grown our business all through referrals.

Brian:

And that's the best way I think, you know, it's the same thing with me. You know, when you get referred to, by a client that you've shopped for, for instance you know, the clients coming in with already a trust factor already there in place. So you don't have to, you don't have to build that trust. It's already there. They know that, you know, someone

Beth:

To the point where you have a meeting and they'll look at you though, whatever you think exactly. Right. So, which is a great feeling. And then, then when they refer you to new clients, you'll do one project with that new client. And then you get to the second or third it's whatever.

Brian:

Well, I have some even designers that don't even show up to the jobs anymore. And I'm like, you know, this is your pride and joy. You've been on this project for a year or two don't. You want to come? And they're like, no, go do your thing,

Beth:

Right? I mean, when you go to reshoot village by the Bay, I might want to come because there are certain nuances I want you to get, but, and I couldn't be there with you. There's another thing that I want to bring up, nothing to do with, is there any way that photography in some of these places, mostly the restaurants, can they be done in the evening now? Which is, which is difficult now it's not as difficult because the restaurants are closing at 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock, but I would love to get the settings, especially when you're in fine dining. The restaurants are designed to look the best in a warm dimly lit setting. Oh, a hundred percent. Very often the photographs are done, like in bright daylight things look a little washed out. And it,

Brian:

That happened to me two weeks ago, shot a restaurant in Manhattan and Midtown. And they open for lunch at 12. And I had to go in there at 9:00 AM to shoot because they didn't want to disturb their lunch hour. And it was what it was, you know what I mean? But it looked like a daylight restaurant and look, some of these restaurants have lunch crowds. Right. But you're right. It's not the same. And I would have gathered, most of these restaurants are designed for, you know, the ambiance of an evening out from Leila.

Beth:

Yeah. Yeah. Some of them do have lunch crafts, but most of it's in evening out. So I would want to, in the future, when we are working on some restaurants, I'd really like to shoot them when they close up, which is hard because it's going to be like midnight.

Brian:

It is what it is. You know, I do a lot of shoots at crazy hours that, you know, I shoot a lot of retail stores and luxury retail and same thing. They don't want to disturb their normal business hours. And most of those stores open at 10 or 11, whatever it is. I love the shoots you've done lately with the Gucci stores. So yeah. So, so for instance, for the Gucci stores, you know, they don't want to disturb their business hours. So let's say they open at 10 or 11. I'm getting in there at 5:00 AM or 6:00 AM. So it's still, so yeah. So, you know, especially if the store is in a mall, it's not an issue because daylight doesn't matter to you. Right. But if it's a standalone store yet, you know, we're getting in there, we're shooting interiors that don't have any windows in the air at first, but then as the sun starts coming up, then we go out and we shoot that stuff. But it's the same thing we should really early in the morning to make sure that we're out of there before they open for business

Beth:

Business. So now I forgot I've got, went off track and now I forgot what we were talking about. You were

Brian:

Talking about my process. Yeah.

Beth:

So that's basically how we do it. We start with the, with the, especially on the restaurants, when it comes to the residential side, that's totally, totally different. That's totally.

Brian:

So, so speaking of restaurants and hospitality, what are your thoughts? I mean, I guess speaking to other designers on having like a specific niche in what you do, you know, you're not a, a general, I mean, you do residential too, but you know, you, you became known as a hospitality designer. You know what, you know, even if you compare it to what I do as a photographer, you know, everyone, there's different niches, you have a wedding photographer, a portrait photographer, you know, an architectural and design, which is what I do. So there are specific niches and, you know, in my world, you're not going to hire a wedding photographer to shoot your, you know, new restaurant. It's not going to look good. Is it similar and, or is there a benefit for other designers to try to try and find a little niche for themselves?

Beth:

What I think. Okay. And I'll, I'll tell you a quick little story, being a hospitality designer, you need to know what the public wants, what the public needs. And there is a, when you go into these places, everyone wants to feel good about themselves. They want to feel they're in a great setting. They're in a fun setting. Whether it's even if it's fast, casual, a lot of fast casual looks amazing these days. And we're doing quite a bit of that as well. They want to feel a good energy. And having that knowledge, it's kind of easy to translate that into residential. Or now we've worked on two hotels. A lot of residential clients want that hospitality feel they want to go into their home and yes, it's more homey, but they want that feel. They want to feel good in their home. And a lot of our interiors have a very warm and cozy appeal and they have a sexiness about them.

Beth:

And we've been told that the way we layer all our textures and our use of color and the lighting that it gives people, a certain feeling that they really, really enjoy. And I've gotten quite a few residential projects because they've gone into the restaurants and they've asked, who did the design? So one of the biggest homes that I'm doing right now, which is a 20,000 square foot home, they went into one 10 last year and they said, we need, we want the designer who did this. I have one other project I'm doing in Lloyd Harbor. Every time they went to a restaurant, they asked who the designer was and they said it was us. And they said, well, we're going to hire that designer because they like to see the details. We have a lot of interesting details and a lot of great materials. And,

Brian:

And that's the field that's, what's trending. Now. I see that also, when I go into residential interiors, like people want their master bedroom bathrooms to feel like they're going into a spa examined that. Yeah. So, so

Beth:

Back in 2008, we did our first show house. I did that show house with one of the designers that was working with me at the time, who's now in her own business, but we did a show house in mill neck. And it was our first show house that we were given the small potting room and then the car to, to the potting room. And when we were doing the designs, the women that was handling the mill next show house, as we were doing it, they said, this is very beautiful, but this is very hospitality looking. It doesn't look residential. So I turned around to the women and I said, I'll tell you right now, the response that you're going to get from our little space is going to be so outstanding because I know what the public responds to PS. What ended up happening is for the first time ever, they handed out an award for the best small space and it was ours. Wow. Because I really do know what the public wants, and I try to stay on top of all that with fashion, with art, with TV, with movies, I really try to stay on top of all of the hardest thing I find is music, but I try to do that as well.

Brian:

So let's, let's shift gears a little and talk a little bit about maybe branding and marketing. I'm curious to get your thoughts because I speak to a lot of designers and this is kind of, sort of my pitch to them. That photography is part of your branding. And I'm curious to hear your thoughts on what role interior photography plays in your branding, because you know, a lot of people think branding is a logo and your letterhead and not is a feeling

Beth:

Branding is, has to bring of course, your, your, the feel and what you represent. And I think interior photography is one of the most important things I really do. I mean, because that's why it's important sometimes for the interior designer to go on that shoot, take a look at those shoots and take a look at the photography that you're doing. Cause you want to make sure it imparts the feeling that that designer, right.

Brian:

And consistency, I think too, you know, I know a few designers who from job to job, go from photographer to photographer, photographer, and then you look at their website and there's just a mishmash of words. Exactly. So I think it's important to have to be consistent. And, you know, I tell the designer new designers that I'm speaking to or new leads, even if you're not going to hire me to shoot, that's fine, but just make sure whoever you do hire use them for all your shoots, because I think consistency across your portfolio of work is crucial to what you're putting out there, whether it's on your portfolio, social media, et cetera. I agree. I agree. Cool. So I want to dive into something which you kind of mentioned earlier when you talked about alliances, but this is more of, I guess, a philosophical question. So, you know, local interior designers, competition or colleagues

Beth:

I look at them more as colleagues because I truly feel that we each have our own specialty or our own niche and there's only one BEth Donner. So that's the way I look at it. There's only one Beth Donner and there's a lot of us and I'm friendly with some of the other designers too. And they're all wonderful. There are a few that I really like and a few that I would consider at the same level that we are. And do I look at them as competition? Maybe a little bit if I want to be honest. But I don't think on long Island, and I'm just gonna say long Island, I don't think on long Island that there are that many multi-talented multi-faceted designers. Like we are.

Brian:

Especially with a niche

Beth:

That also move around from niche to niche, to niche, to niche. There are a lot of wonderful residential designers, but you don't really see them making the leap into something else. We do so many different projects.

Brian:

I also think there's so much work out there.

Beth:

There is. And there's a lot to go around. There really is a lot to go around and there are so many designers that I really in love and I enjoy and I love hanging out with, so I look at them more.

Brian:

Yeah. I, I sort of agree with you, you know, there's, there's a couple of interior photographers out here and, you know, we're all doing different work. So if my work doesn't fit a specific design or someone else's might, or vice versa, and we're going to learn from each other, it only, it only makes us better

Beth:

Lately. I feel like, I mean, I haven't done it yet, but I've heard of designers that are sort of aligning themselves with one another, that they're forming alliances. Like I've got a staff of nine, so that's a fairly large staff. Most of the designers out here don't have as large a staff. So sometimes they will form alliances with other designers. And I see that it's becoming more and more common. And I'm also seeing that there are designers that have very successful, successful businesses that are actually offering up advice to up and coming designers or designers that are having a hard time putting themselves out there or making profit. And I, I, there are some designers out there, not so much on long Island, but in New York that are actually offering to help.

Brian:

Yeah. Look, that's a big thing, you know, as I mentioned to you previously, I run a podcast for other photographers and I think, you know, what I, my biggest takeaway from that was just what I've learned personally, you know, on the podcast, when I put out information for other photographers to learn, but me interviewing other photographers to put out there teaches me so much about other people's processes and, and, you know, just making connections and networking with other photographers and learning how they do things

Beth:

For know how that works out. Because I actually I've actually had twice. Actually one time was actually just two days ago, I had a designer call me and said, I'm going to be recommending you to somebody because I can't take the job. And I want to make sure that you're able to take it. And she's not a long Island designer she's out of long Island, so I really can't take it. And I'm going to recommend you and I'll let you know, you know, what happens with that? And then I had a hospitality designer, actually, he passed away recently. He passed away of cancer and back about 10 years ago, his name was Dante. Paganini really good hospitality designer here on long Island was really popular. Starting in the eighties, through the nineties, into the two thousands. He actually partnered on some restaurants. So back about 10 years ago, he actually, he couldn't work for a year or so. And he actually called me and told me, you're the only designer that I want to trust my clients with. And I'm going to be recommending you to my clients until I'm ready to come back to work. I was like, wow, that's an amazing compliment. So that just goes to show you how designers can be colleagues and help and work with one another.

Brian:

Yeah, I think in the long run it's for the greater good. It's gonna just help everyone.

Beth:

Exactly. So to answer your question, I think more than colleagues.

Brian:

All right. So where, you know, I know you said when you're starting a new project, a lot of times they'll send you influence photos and stuff like that. But when you're working on a project, where do you, where does your influence come from? Where does your style come from?

Beth:

And

Brian:

Is, is your style consistent across your portfolio of work? Do you find maybe consciously or unconsciously common themes across your work or

Beth:

I think unconsciously like I said, we do a lot of layering. We mix a lot of texture together. We're not, we're not extremely, don't mix a lot of patterns together, but we do mix a lot of texture together. We like to use a lot of organic materials. I like to use, I'd like to use metal a lot. I like a lot. I liked some shine and sparkle and everything that we do. But one thing that seems to be consistent is all our projects seem to feel warm and welcoming, whether you're in a home or whether you're in a restaurant, even a fast food, they all have a welcoming, sometimes little whimsical feel to them. Like there'll be pieces that are really interesting and whimsical, whether it's a custom piece of art, whether it's a custom mural, whether it's a cool neon sign, there's always a bit of whimsy thrown in. So yeah, there are some things that are, that are common, but lately I've been finding, I've been doing ultra modern down to not ultra traditional, but transitional I've been running the gamut with different styles. Interesting.

Brian:

All right. So I'm going to ask you one final question which I'm going to kind of steal again from another podcast that I listened to and that's, do you consider yourself an artist or a creative? Because I hear different different answers to this from architects and designers and different people. People ask me this too, you know, do you consider yourself an artist? And there goes more into defining what, what is really an artist or what is art, but that's a conversation for another time, but 

Beth:

But I definitely consider myself a creative and I guess, do I being a creative in some respects, you're also an artist because I'm putting my own spin my own brush on the, on the look or my designers are putting their own brush on the look. So yes, there's no question. And, and we try to do things as prototypical as we can, which makes it a little bit more difficult because we, we rarely copy unless we're doing a franchise. We designed a franchise now that's one after another, after another. And it's the same. We did come up with a theme and we designed a franchise. It looks like we have another franchise that we're gonna be.

Brian:

But nevertheless, that theme you come up with, I mean, you cry, you know, I sort of define an artist or art is someone who creates something from nothing. Right. You know, and when you, you basically walk into a home or a restaurant with a blank canvas with just some ideas and you create so,

Beth:

Right, exactly, totally a black canvas. And it's, it's definitely creative. I sometimes I keep myself up at night thinking about new ways to do things. And I find myself on the computer looking for ways to use certain things. I look at how other people have used it. And usually when I look at the other people that have used it, I look at the, I look at the other designers or the architects that are sort of way out there. And then I say, how could I utilize this kind of funky can't leave her? Or how could I utilize this crazy material in my project?

Brian:

Yeah. Well, I think that's how you get, you know, I do the same thing. I'm up at night, looking at interior images all night on my wife was like, what are you doing then? I'm like, you know, if I catch a little something from one image that I love and I fall in love with and figure out a way to bring that into my work, it just changes everything. They're doing

Beth:

Everything. It changes everything. So I find myself doing that all the time. Now it's easier than ever because it's all at your fingertips. You know? So very often my husband will, I'm on, I'm on my phone, just looking and looking. And then I'm also getting the news and getting all the, the latest. And he's like, what, what are you doing? I said, well, this is, this is, you know, like my encyclopedia, now this is research. I'm doing my research, you know, and I don't look at it as work. I look at it as it's one of my passion. It's my baby. And that's the way I look at it. I never had kids in my own. So it truly is my baby. And it truly is my passion because I, I never had the kids. I mean, now that I'm married to Frank and he had five kids, I'm blessed to have those five kids. And now the grandkids, which is, which is really cool. And it's something that I didn't think I would have because I never had my own kids. So yes, it's, it's a passion.

Brian:

Great. So I want to thank you for coming on for my first episode. It was a pleasure chatting with you.

Beth:

I hope it's what you expected. And I enjoyed it so much. It was great. And whenever you wanna run a podcast, I'd love to be able to come up.

Brian:

All right. Sure. And again, Beth Donner design on Instagram and bethdonnerdesign.com is where people can find you.

Beth:

Yes, Beth, Donna on Instagram, and then we'll be on Twitter soon. Where on Facebook and where on LinkedIn and then on LinkedIn, I'm also, if you want to just check out just Beth Donner. Sure. you can do that as well. And that a lot of people are going just to Beth Donner before I start building the best Donner design on LinkedIn.

Brian:

Sure. So, you know, I recommend everyone to go out and follow you on all the multiple platforms and multiple channels. And thank you again for coming on. Hopefully this was as fun and exciting for you as it was for me. So I appreciate it.

Beth:

It was great. I really enjoyed it.